An Interview with Jim Fields, Co-Director of "End of the Century: The Story of The Ramones".
[Originally appeared in Sink Approach vol. 1, self-published in 2005]
Interview by Adam Harmless and Darlene Vile
In August of
2003, the long wait was finally over for fans of the legendary New
York punk band the Ramones with the theatrical release of “End of
the Century: The Story of The Ramones”. The critically acclaimed
documentary delves deep into the pink and fleshy psyche of the
now-defunct band, and exposed a highly dysfunctional but brilliantly
prolific group of musicians. Jim Fields, who co-directed EOTC with
Michael Gramaglia, gave us at Sink Approach insight into the exciting
world of the Ramones, and the documentary filmmaking process in this
in-depth interview.
SINK APPROACH:
Most of the folks in the Ramones camp are life-long New Yorkers.
Where did you grow up? Did you go to college?
JIM FIELDS: Michael
Gramaglia and I are friends from early on in high school. We grew up
in southern Westechester, about 30 minutes from mid-town Manhattan. I
moved to New York City permanently in 1986, so we grew up in a
similar type of area as Forest Hills except maybe it had more rich
people….not really sure.
As for college:
I went to a place called Vasser College in upstate New York. I was a
biology and English co-major. Totally useless that degree. Michael
went the original and unconventional route. Instead of going directly
to college, he moved to Rome for about 5 years. He returned to NYC
and worked his way through college then. That’s how he met the
Ramones…it was his day job to get him through school. He worked as
their book keeper.
SA: End of The
Century was pretty much your directorial debut. What kind of prior
experience did you have working in film, if any?
JF: Michael and I
had very little directing experience. Michael had made it into the
film union IATSE as a sound man…mostly for feature film before he
left it all for Italy. After college, I worked as production
assistant for a while and serendipitously found my way into editing
TV commercials. That’s what I was doing before we started the film.
I owned a Bolex and we used that for our first shoot. It was really
Michael’s contact with the band and his initial idea to try to make
something about them.
SA: You’re
obviously a big fan of the Ramones. How did you get involved with
them?
JF: Well, as I said,
it was just luck. Michael was working for them for a few years. This
was the early 90’s. He would call me at work and tell me crazy
stories about them. Things he’d witness or just heard about. He
kind of struck of friendships with them. We were huge fans of theirs
having really been into them and many other bands in their heyday
like Cars, Blondie, Devo, Elvis Costello, Squeeze, Jam, Dead Boys,
Sex Pistols, etc. When Michael got to know them and I got to hear
about their crazy lives it was really thrilling. These guys were
legends to us. But after a while they sort of seemed like
fascinating, complex people. Our fandom kind of waned as we got to
know them. Not that we ever stopped being fans of their music but
getting to know them was a very strange experience.
SA: Which Ramones
album is your favorite? Why did you name the film after their 5th
album?
JF: My fave has to
be Rocket To Russia. That’s the first one I ever heard back in ’78
or ’79, I really don’t recall exactly. My sister brought it home
one day and I used to steal her records. I thought the cover was
hilarious…with John Holstrom’s cartoons. I was a real MAD
Magazine and National Lampoon fan at the time so…it just sort of
seemed like a logical progression looking back on it now.
We named the
film after the filth record because it symbolized the story of the
film of their lives. The band was a part of American
cultural/rock’n’roll history totally rooted in the end of the
20th century. Their passing/breaking up was the end of an
era. Plus that record was sort of the event that most challenged all
their optimism and dreams and their relationships. After that record,
their lives as a band and as individuals changed. Joey lost the love
of his life to his partner/bandmate and Phil Spector changed the
trajectory of them creatively that they never really recovered from.
SA: What other
bands, kinds of music do you like?
JF: I’m pretty
eclectic in my tastes. I’ve always loved other stuff than just
punk. As long as it’s good I like it. I like some jazz, some
classical…whatever the hell it is. Right now I’m listening to the
Gourds, The Kills, Wheatus, Libertines, the Monks, New Pornographers,
Queens of the Stone Age, Sondre Lerche…a lot of others.
SA: Marky Ramone
recently announced his departure from the Misfits, for whom he played
drums for the past 4 years. Would you ever consider doing a
documentary about them? Their story is just dying to be told!
JF: I don’t know a
thing about them. Is it interesting? I saw Marky play with them. He
was amazing as always. He’s one of those rare people who just keeps
his chops. I don’t know much about them but they sounded great with
Marky.
SA: You produced and
directed EOTC with Michael Gramaglia. How did you end up working with
him? Do you think the film benefited from having two directors?
JF: I already
answered the first part…I hope. AS for the second part… I think
the film really benefited from both our points of view and we had a
third one which was crucial: our co-editor John Gramaglia, Michael’s
brother (also an old friend of mine from High School). We were able
to bring 3 slightly different points of view with one single
aesthetic It’s much better, much more thorough and deeper than if
any one of us had been solely in charge. AT least, I thinks o and I
think the other guys would agree.
SA: The 1997
documentary We’re Outta Here told the story of the Ramones' final
days before calling it quits. Many fans felt that it sheepishly
glossed over the band’s personal conflicts and turmoil. Did you
feel intimidated bring the untold elements of the Ramones to the
screen?
JF: We thought that
the film was a lost opportunity and we said so to Johnny. He wasn’t
exactly keen on us nobodies making the film but after they hired a
known directory and had Gar Kurfirst put together that film we just
told him it was boring and sloppy and they deserved better. He
agreed. Really, Michael hounded him about it...which is not easy to
do with Johnny. He’s pretty intimidating. I mean, at some point
when Johnny and Joey weren’t into our idea I felt…fuck it, let’s
just walk away. And I have to say Michael kept on them both. He got
me fired up after a short time and then we both went full-throttle
trying to convince them. Johnny came on board but Joey was always
suspicious of us.
SA: Lead singer Joey
Ramone suffered from lymphoma for years until his death in 2001.
Since you couldn’t talk to him directly, was it difficult to
represent Joey’s side of the story?
JF: Well we did talk
to him directly a few times. Just never on camera. During those years
he was sick and we were trying to make the film and he was also
making his solo album. At first he didn’t want to do the film
because he wanted nothing to do with the Ramones and was pre-occupied
with the album. Totally understandable. Then he saw a 5 minute sample
of what our film would be like, he really loved it and wanted to do
it. But he kept postponing the interviews because he wouldn’t feel
up to it. Finally, we made a date to meet and he was really
enthusiastic about it and was going to push himself to do it but he
died only a few days later.
Finding Joey
footage then became a big problem. He did a lot of press but he never
spoke honestly about his personal experiences and feelings. He
believed in “the band” and so never revealed to the public what
was really going on. So we couldn’t find anything from Joey that
was substantial in that aspect. Luckily, Mickey Leigh, who really
wanted more Joey…and we agreed…hooked us up with George Seminara
who became one of our producers. He was a close friend of Joey’s
for years and he’s a filmmaker so he had some pretty good footage
of Joey he shot and he brought that to the edit. We cut in 13 more
minutes of Joey from that footage and some BBC footage. It wasn’t
ideal but it helped build Joey’s presence in the film.
SA: EOTC has a lot
of great interviews, not only with the Ramones, but with other
renowned musicians like Debbie Harry and Glen Matlock. Who did you
enjoy talking to the most in your research for this movie?
JF: So many
interviews were great to do. Legs McNeil was great fun. Mickey Leigh
was fun. John Holstrom, Danny Fields, Joe strummer, Johnny, Marky,
Tommy…We really enjoyed these people. The great thing about this
scene was that the CB’s scene was populated with such colorful and
intelligent people. Even Dee Dee is very bright, though he can be
mistaken for a zoned out junkie. He wasn’t at all. He’s smart and
canny and funny and interesting. Danny was probably someone we
interviewed the most, I think. He was so interesting and hilarious
and insightful. I’m a big fan of his. I mean he's a major figure in
American Rock history and he's just incredibly bright and a great
storyteller. I don't know...so many great ones. Joe Strummer was
enthusiastic and bright and fascinating and honest. I couldn't single
out just one...but all these people gave up their time for us without
pay and performed great and just made our film what it is. I can't
thank them enough.
SA: The Clash's
legendary vocalist Joe Strummer died of a heart attack in 2002, and
your film contains his last interview. What impressed you the most
about him?
JF: He was very
gracious to do the interview. I wasn't there. We tried to get him in
America and couldn't. So Michael and our editor John flew to London
just for him, really. We hired a DP (it usually was me) and they
hooked up with him there. I had a 6 month old at home and was in the
throes of child-care at the time so I couldn't make it.
But what I hear
and saw through Michael and John and in the footage was a guy was the
real deal. He was like a Johnny Cash kind of figure. Hugely famous
but very real. He wasn't at all a primadonna in any way. He sang
about real stuff and his life and the life he observed. Plus he took
a 3 hour train ride to meet them in London. Michael had secured a
shoot location which fell through at the last moment and they ended
up in a woman's bathroom in a dank club somewhere. Joe didn't care.
He thought is was "street" and "punk". It was, I
guess. We were totally DIY.
Oh...he also had
a cold. And when his 45 minute interview was up, he gladly got back
on the train for a 3 hour ride back. My parents would put it
succinctly: "he's a mensch". (a Yiddish word which
literally means "man" but...shit...you probably know
already).
SA: What was your
impression of Johnny's wife (now widow), Linda Cummings? What's she
like?
JF: I met Linda a
few times but never got to know her real well so it's hard for me to
comment. She actually did an interview for us and it was really good.
But politics of the band being what they were, it just didn't make
the cut. She was always cool with us so I have nothing really
interesting to report.
SA: As you know, Dee
Dee struggled with heroin addiction his entire adult life. Do you
feel that he was clean during his interviews for EOTC?
JF: We assumed he
was clean. He certainly seemed completely alert and unaffected by
anything while we spoke to him. We were totally surprised by what
happened. But he was living in a junkie area of L.A. I only know that
because my sister lives in L.A. and I stayed with her when we filmed
there. She asked where Dee Dee lived. I told her and her response was
"that's the worst place arecovering junkie could live!" So
maybe he just indulged that one time...I don't know.
SA: In 1981, the
Ramones starred in the low-budget musical comedy Rock 'N' Roll High
School. Why was the making of Rock 'N' Roll High School ignored in
your film?
JF: The truth
is...when you have a time limit in making a film....in the length you
have to make hard choices. We ultimately chose to tell the story of a
dysfunctional family rather than catalogue the Ramones' experiences.
We focused on character rather than that catalogue kind of stuff.
So...none of the Ramones had any real feelings about the film. It
didn't have much of an impact on their relationships or their career.
The movie wasn't such a hit when it came out. It's a classic now. But
it just wasn't significantly impactful on their lives. So all we'd
really say about it is...that it happened and we acknowledge it or
imply it with a very expensive clip from the movie. But there were so
many important things going on then that were so significant that the
hard choice was made to sort of move on. I wish we could include
everything but...you'd just have to write a book.
SA: Richie Ramone
ended up leaving the band in 1987 after a dispute over compensation.
The Ramones and their entourage often attempted to pretend he never
existed. Do you think that Richie Ramone got a raw deal in the
Ramones legacy? Do you think Richie feels that way?
JF: I knew Richie
felt that way. I knew some people in the Ramones organization felt
that way...that he should be wiped from Ramones history like those
who ran afoul of Stalin. Do I think he got a raw deal? It's not for
me to judge. I'm not trying to dodge the question but it's kind of a
"he said, she said" kind of argument. I don't really know
whose behavior was worse or better. It's hard to take sides in
inner-Ramones conflicts...in fact...we definitely refused to do so.
We experienced a lot of pressure to take sides but we flatly refused.
We needed EVERYONE's trust so...we just kept impartial.
SA: In EOTC, Dee Dee
makes references to his old pal Ritchie Stern. Is he the infamous
first Ritchie Ramone? Any clue what became of that guy?
JF: We tried sooo
hard to find Ritchie. He sounded like such a character. Everybody
talked about him but...we couldn't find him. We located his sister
but even she didn't...or claimed she didn't...know of his
whereabouts.
SA: What do you
think of the various members' post-Ramones work? Like Marky's
numerous other punk bands, Dee Dee King's "Standing In the
Spotlight" album, and Joey's solo career?
JF: Dee Dee's album
is partly ridiculous and partly really quite good. It's not so much
rap but mostly Ramones type music. "The Crusher" is on
it...which was redoneas a track onthe Ramones' final album with CJ
singing on it. It's an endearing album too because it's so Dee Dee
and so innocent in some ways. Joey's album is quite good, I thought.
Marky...if you saw him play in one of these bands you'd know what I
mean but...he's fucking good. I don't Know what it is about him but
when he's on stage he just gets it right. We filmed him giving a sort
of lecture of his life story to a large audience of college kids and
he was really funny and entertaining. He's a showman and good at it.
I would do a doc just about him.
SA: We've heard
about your disappointment over not being able to use the Sex Pistols
classic tune "Anarchy in the U.K." in your film. Why
couldn't you secure the rights, and was this a problem with any other
songs?
JF: Sex Pistols
management informed us that if we were saying anything negative about
the Pistols they would nix it. Well, we were saying that they didn't
"start punk rock". Big fucking deal but they sell records
based on this premise. We don't eve care whether they did or
didn't...in our investigating it, though, it seemed, and this was
confirmed by Strummer, that the Sex Pistols weren't really cohesive
until the Ramones came along. This was the catalyst that jump started
England's scene. They said no. Jerk-offs
Other songs...We
had a really great "Baby I Love You" scene with the London
Philharmonic backing up the Ramones on a British TV show. But Specter
wouldn't give us the rights so we had to pull that. Then we were
going to use a cheesy hit form the 70's called "Hot Buttered
Popcorn" to illustrate the shitty top 40 in the 70's but the
rights owner wanted $7500. We said...ok. Bye. Then we replaced that
with a cool clip of Donny and Marie on the Mike Douglas Show. They
said no. Nobody likes to be defamed. What can you say?
SA: Was there anyone
interviewed who didn't make the final cut? What was the hardest thing
to lose in the final cut overall?
JF: We lost a lot of
stuff. Our first cut was 3 hours long! And it was all good stuff. We
had a really thorough and interesting CBGB's section which was 15
minutes long and ended up being about 1 minute and 30 seconds. We
interviewed a lot of non-rock star characters fromthe time who were
great but...just didn't have time.
We lost some
priceless but libelous stories by Danny Fields. The list is just too
long. But that's filmmaking.
SA: EOTC made its
debut at the Slamdance Film Festival in January 2003, and made it's
theatrical debut more than a year later in August 2004. What was it
like to finally put your film out there for the world to see?
JF: To tell you the
truth, we had shown it so many times before the theatrical release it
was a bit anti-climactic. We were thrilled it was done and out there
and the critical response was amazing. But...we already endured about
15 to 25 big audience screening in L.A. at the Egyptian Theater, in
NYC, in Toronto, and Berlin. we always got good reviews but it was a
relief to get good ones not ina festival or special screening
setting.
But by this
time...we had seen the film thousands of times and we just couldn't
even sit through it anymore so we really lost the freshness of the
audience reaction by that time.
SA: It seems EOTC
was extremely well-received by film critics, as well as the music
community. Was there anyone who was upset with the way they or their
loved one was portrayed in the film?
JF: Oh yeah, some
fan are naturally going to think we fucked up. One French guy at the
Toronto film festival almost ripped me a new asshole because he hated
our film. He thought it was way too negative and depressing and I
thought, at one point, he was going to kick my ass. Then once in L.A.
at the Egyptian Theater, during the Q&A, a woman screamed from
the balcony that we glossed over L.A. and its role as the Ramones'
second home. She was distraught and so completely disruptive. I
actually enjoyed it. I mean, she was really really passionate about
the band and the film. I mean, you know you're doing something right
to get those kinds of reactions.
As for Ramones
members...well during the filming we had problems. Johnny was
agonized over our revealing about the Linda thing. I have to hand it
to him...he was dead set against it. None of his friends knew about
this so this was a big deal to him. But we showed him a cut with it
in and he understood why we did it. We offered to cut it out but he
knew it gave weight to the film and so he went with it. He might be a
son of a bitch in some ways, as some fans have commented, but I
thought it was really ballsy of him to go ahead with it and I really
admire him for it.
SA: EOTC was
released on DVD in February of 2005. What do you think of the DVD
packaging, features, and how involved were you with it?
JF: I think it was
March 15, actually (SA: yep you're right). As for the DVD...well we
weren't really that involved. I'm in to graphic design so I would
have liked to have seen more design of the packaging and the menus
but...that costs more money and that's something in very short
supply. I'm just glad that it's widely available and the extras are
pretty good. Too bad we didn't have the money to do a making-of doc.
We have amazing footage of us following them around in their lives
but because it contains some live performances we'd have to pay music
fees we can't afford. Maybe on reissue.
I think the
British packaging by Tartan Pictures looks cool. We had ZERO
involvement in that. They just paid for the rights and closed the
door. Never had another bit of contact with them.
SA: Do you think you
and Michael Gramaglia will ever do audio commentary for the DVD?
JF: I told Warner
Brothers we should because we have amazing stories to tell about the
Ramones but they said, "nobody cares about you, you're
nobodies". And that was the end of that. I mean I tried to
explain our commentary wouldn't be about us it would be about us and
the Ramones...really about the Ramones. But they really thought we
would just devalue the DVD. Maybe they're right.
SA: How has the
success and critical acclaim of EOTC changed your everyday life?
JF: Not in any way
shape or form, much to our disappointment.
SA: Now that you've
made one of the greatest music documentaries of all time, what do you
plan to do next? Any future projects you'd like to tell us about?
JF: Can't comment.
Nothing is real until it's purchased by a distributor so all our
efforts could be for naught right now. But we are trying to do some
interesting stuff both doc and narrative.
SA: Do you have any
words of wisdom for budding documentary filmmakers?
JF: Nah. If they're
serious they don't need any advice.
SA: Thanks Jim!
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